Self lying has to be the most destructive to the person's psyche. That is where cheating/lying to others leads to not caring about the hurt being caused
Maybe some can carry that on indefinitely. It is my fervent hope that most cannot. However deep the rabbit hole I seem to find myself in these days, I can't believe the majority of doctors went into their profession with the hope that they could, someday, kill their patients.
OMG they're gonna be pissed when they realise just how much they've been played - listen to Dr. Boz - she jabbed herself, her kids and her patients. They (the majority anyway) CANNOT carry on for much longer; they see the carnage every day.
hey ya know, I'm sure they got a pill or surgery to correct ALL 'problems of the psyche'. just heard today, via uncovered internal emails, that 'gender affirming' surgeons were discussing the use of an app to facilitate communications between all the personalities (some dozen or so) in a person with Multiple Personality Disorder, so that 'they could agree' on sex change treatments/surgeries. I. SHIT. YOU. NOT. these folks think its just jolly good to do life-altering surgery on a seriously mentally ill person. talk about not caring about hurting someone, these freaks (the doctors) are unconscionable
Cheating, lieing, and stealing are all the same thing to me. If a person does any one of these things, they are not to be trusted...period. The same thing I have told my children. It keeps their eyes open who to trust.
Cheating is an alarm bell 🔔 for the self that I’m off track to my truest nature e.g., believing thoughts like ‘I’m less than’ or ‘I’m not good enough’. I liken it to sin (which I get can be a loaded word), where I turn against the reality of self - that of wordless wonder and love and peace and being. If I believe I’m lacking, I notice I try and find a way to make up for this lack somehow. (Overeating, dishonesty, taking more than giving). This can be the slightest thing (seemingly only affecting the self) or a big cheat clearly affecting other people or things or nature etc
Byron Katie has offered a way for me to find this for myself. Especially if I think the world shouldn’t cheat: I then look to where I cheat myself. Start with the micro.
Thank you for your curious mind and sharing Jessica Rose. You are someone I admire (from little NZ) as you have come to my attention over the last few years. You personify integrity and grit (funny just realised there is grit in integrity!) and I love your sense of humour and realness.
I hope you realise your meaning to others around the world- well this one anyway/ thank you for all you do and are doing and thank you for just being you!
What an uncharacteristic post from you! In something like four years of following you I don't remember a hint about the other side of your life - relationships.
As a born Californian and after three decades in the Washington swamp I am familiar with cheating and cheaters. My take is the same as yours. Even in two failed marriages the question until the end was how to make it work rather than, who else?
Happy to say that the third one is a charm. And to know from experience that bodies are just bodies - everybody has one. What is unique is the person, and especially the relationship. The bond that serves as the foundation of the relationship, the anchor, the model to present to the children.
Man and woman! Do not let lust and sloth rule your day! Baptize in the name of Yehoshuah [Jesus], and cleanse your sin! Then you are forgiven, and you will not cheat and defile yourselves anymore. Higher awareness will rule your day! Live a holy life with good intention in every moment you can! If there is real love, there will be marriage, and hopefully healthy non-modified antivaxx natural children.
Why do people cheat? 1. Because they can and think they will get away with it. 2. Because there are financial incentives to cheat. 3. Because they are told to by their workplaces for the benefit of the employer.
But, you are mostly looking at interpersonal relationships in this article. I think our cultures have emphasiszed the wrong things because the sell. 1. Sexualizing everything to make us feel if we bought X we would be more like the model in the ad. 2. Placing power and success of climbing the corporate ladder with get you a high value partner. 3. Lack of impulse control. I want him or her and my partner will not find out. But eventually they do and it creates great pain. The moral failing is allowing yourself to be willing to take the risk of hurting someone you love or at least care about for some shallow self gratification, validation or thrill.
Me sitting around with a gay couple; “you two are monogamous, right?” “Absolutely” they said and then reached out and touched each other affectionately. “We talked about this, because a lot of gay couples aren’t, and we knew this was very important to both of us. So we are. I mean mainly.” Mainly! I laughed. Then they proceeded to tell me about one who had been at an academic conference and had a hookup, sending PICS BACK to the other. The hookup was coming out to visit them that summer. Which was going to be hot and exciting!! They asked how my wife and I handled it. I said ‘we don’t. We are monogamous. And not mainly’. They gasped. As in how is this possible!?!
wow is right. i know that 'to each their won' might apply here for some people, but i really feel like true pair bonding can't work that way. i think it's about lust when sex is involved. in my opinion, which is not shared by many, the divinity and sacredness of pair bonding physically is lost on some people, and is centered around love, not lust. it's simply 'too easy' to be easy. :)
A gay person I knew asked how long my wife and I had been together. At the time it was 20 years. Forty now. He was shocked. He said ‘Twenty years. That’s 100 in gay years.’ Which was pretty funny. But he said a 20 year long relationship among gays is the equivalent of 100 year long straight marriage. They were that unusual. They don’t hold together. Not that straight ones do either in many ways. But they break up really easily.
Very insightful. I've been writing about liars a long time and this applies, as a cheat is a lie. They both undermine the agency of the counter party, and are both the mark of a selfish, sometimes evil soul.
Yah… any kind of cheating is a sort of self judgement where we feel like we need to be ahead of or above others. It’s all about self esteem to me. When we judge others we’re judging ourselves. And there’s so much name calling and blaming and yes, cheating… all to cover up the roaring self hatred. I agree it’s a lot about nurture. A little trick I use when I catch myself being judgmental is to pause and say ”just like me”. Good topic. 🩵
To your question: The first person I fell truly in love with - and still love decades later - admitted to being witness to, but incapable of responding to their father sexually abusing the middle sister in a family of two girls and three boys. In that moment of hearing this on our third date, I sensed that I was going to be cheated on. And despite denials about intention, he cheated on me within 18 months. Ii felt at the time that it was going to happen as a self-test of survival through broken loyalties (survival) by an authority figure. Other than keeping secrets, social norms were obviously useless. Someone cheating on me seemed like the means for the witness of abuse to regain a sense of self-sovereignty through self-created existential crisis, after being silenced in the emotionally and physically precarious realm of child abuse.
Their MD father was socially respected in a top position, and an authority figure at home for kids who depended upon him for their very survival. The father was a narcissst but did not make sexual comments in public about feeling his daughter was sexy to him, like a certain Public political figure did on daytime TV..
None of the kids in the family if my friend ever got married. The older brother turned out to be the most caring for
others. They are all really bright, creative and perhaps silently conditioned… to be who they are by trusting in themselves and still upholding their values.
Cheating is such an unfortunate act and maybe more forgivable than child abuse. And for those cheated on? Love hurts: but also, their cheating has not much to do with the person cheated on. It’s a sign of no love or broken love, if we share love physically with spoken commitment.
When cheated on, I fully felt my own being as decidedly different than the one I loved who cheated on me. Honesty as a loving person was always the basis for grounding my very sense of being. But that comes from and with suffering under and always caring for a deceptive, unloving Covert Narcissist of a mother. It takes a lifetime to learn we can’t compensate for family members. Regardless of others cheating, life is little without knowing ♥️ and respect for others comes from within. Cheating and abuse for that matter may be a boundary issue. Abhorrent? Painful! I don’t know the Alpha lingo, but don’t think it has much to do with conscious loving.
Hmm yes. But I need more context. Can you kindly say something more about the Alpha metaphor/idea or give a reference?
I also need to sleep on ‘conscious loving’ to be more definitive. Because
It is potential within all of us, and feels related to a profound sense of being (alive), in a way some don’t seem to sense.
It is something about inter-subjectivity… Being present and WITH spirted beings (people, cats, cells LIFE ) versus thinking about others, as if objective things who DO things to us. It’s something about precious creativity with and within this one/whole physical realm with others of the same realm… where creativity including pro-creation is profound and comes from within each of us through the complex dynamics across scales.
The conscious loving reflects an empathetic sense that can be frightening (?) when others simply don’t know how that is. It’s something about open perception and perspective, connections, and intelligence beyond thought(?) not one or the other…. and being in the world with one another in a timeless now.
Sorry as I am rambling about the ineffable that is not just a physically intimate act.
Is the cheating ‘problem’ maybe what you/we sense when someone you love isn’t fully with you as you know you are with them? So when they fail to respect you with honesty, they impose their limitations on you? Or maybe they aren’t cheating on you so much as their life has cheated them out of the experience of knowing and loving you and themselves as fully as you feel you do them? Nobody is above or ahead of anybody else really. Still, many just think they are in a well defined objective and transactional world when they maybe could have potential for being so much more.
Words! Clumsy yet Heartfelt shades of the 12 bio-dynamic dimensions of love within the context of universal being which IS: love.
Letters! I am, and it is the difference between one loving and living within all that is ever now.
There have been very few 'healthy' relationships exemplified on television, but a favorite of mine from the 'old days' of tv was the connection between Marshall Matt Dillon and Miss Kitty on the wonderful series "Gunsmoke". It portrayed two independent, self-assured people who loved each other and respected each other's character, personality, privacy, needs and wants. An exquisitely balanced relationship, especially for the early 1960s.
As an aside, there was an episode of the precursor to "Gunsmoke" called "Marshall Dillon" that absolutely floored me. Bear in mind this was about 1959 or '60. I saw it a couple of years ago on some obscure digital tv channel. It revolved around a middle-aged husband and wife who lived on a farm/ranch a few miles out of town and stayed pretty much to themselves, except for the infrequent trips to town in the horse and buggy for supplies. Everyone in town KNEW how the husband unrelentingly verbally and physically abused his wife for years, but they all looked the other way. Finally, the wife couldn't take it any more and shot her husband dead in their barn after a particularly bad session of abuse. Marshall Dillon went out to the farm to investigate the death, exchanged minimal words with the wife, easily grasped what had transpired, offered his well wishes to the now-widow, got on his horse and went back to town. Never dreamed I'd see that circa 1960 on the tv.
Absolutely, and she also owned the saloon. The madam, though, and not one of the 'working' girls. As I said, an independent woman, pretty unusual in the 50s-60s.
Cheaters are totally lacking in self respect or, for that matter respect for anyone else. I sometimes wonder if it not part of the subtle brainwashing that is going on in efforts to break up the family unit. After all family is one of our biggest strengths and must be destroyed if they wish to totally dominate mankind.
Jessica, this topic is about as old as civilization itself.
I agree with you on most of your content and since I'm no longer approaching middle-age, I'm old enough to remember when it was OK to have a one night stand without serious consequences or being being stalked both physically & online..... I personally learned my lesson about cheating in 2002.....
my then-girlfriend, was a beautiful, though inexperienced person.... we were experimenting with threesomes and our real estate agent who sold us our condo, indicated she was very interested in both of us....yes we were all aware of the sexual tension in the room...well, the agent was used to being in charge, and wanted a permanent threesome, and she continued to pursue me at my office....I had to change my address, etc. It went on for months, until she sold another house to a charming female buyer, who replaced us as the newest unwitting target of unrelenting sexual advances. A court-ordered restraining order brought it all to a peaceful end
ENM, ethical non-monogamy, is also a very sensitive topic which can consume hours and hours of interesting reading of accounts by married couples who are trying to use it to solve issues of loneliness and neglect in conventional monogamous relationships, perhaps, after decades of monogamous marriage.
Polyamory with children , without children, empty, nesters, and gay couples of all types will likely have something to say about cheating on their significant other, legal spouse, Or even an ex lover, invited to thanksgiving...
Pretty complicated stuff, eh ? Nevermind the Girls and guys who believe that it isn't cheating unless there's an emotional connection and climaxing.... these comments are not intended to be gasoline on a fire, merely Broadening the scope of the discussion
Cheating is a form of lying. If you chest. You are also a compulsive LIAR
self lying
Self lying has to be the most destructive to the person's psyche. That is where cheating/lying to others leads to not caring about the hurt being caused
Maybe some can carry that on indefinitely. It is my fervent hope that most cannot. However deep the rabbit hole I seem to find myself in these days, I can't believe the majority of doctors went into their profession with the hope that they could, someday, kill their patients.
OMG they're gonna be pissed when they realise just how much they've been played - listen to Dr. Boz - she jabbed herself, her kids and her patients. They (the majority anyway) CANNOT carry on for much longer; they see the carnage every day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3N-uFfvU5s
hey ya know, I'm sure they got a pill or surgery to correct ALL 'problems of the psyche'. just heard today, via uncovered internal emails, that 'gender affirming' surgeons were discussing the use of an app to facilitate communications between all the personalities (some dozen or so) in a person with Multiple Personality Disorder, so that 'they could agree' on sex change treatments/surgeries. I. SHIT. YOU. NOT. these folks think its just jolly good to do life-altering surgery on a seriously mentally ill person. talk about not caring about hurting someone, these freaks (the doctors) are unconscionable
Cheating, lieing, and stealing are all the same thing to me. If a person does any one of these things, they are not to be trusted...period. The same thing I have told my children. It keeps their eyes open who to trust.
Cheating is an alarm bell 🔔 for the self that I’m off track to my truest nature e.g., believing thoughts like ‘I’m less than’ or ‘I’m not good enough’. I liken it to sin (which I get can be a loaded word), where I turn against the reality of self - that of wordless wonder and love and peace and being. If I believe I’m lacking, I notice I try and find a way to make up for this lack somehow. (Overeating, dishonesty, taking more than giving). This can be the slightest thing (seemingly only affecting the self) or a big cheat clearly affecting other people or things or nature etc
Byron Katie has offered a way for me to find this for myself. Especially if I think the world shouldn’t cheat: I then look to where I cheat myself. Start with the micro.
Thank you for your curious mind and sharing Jessica Rose. You are someone I admire (from little NZ) as you have come to my attention over the last few years. You personify integrity and grit (funny just realised there is grit in integrity!) and I love your sense of humour and realness.
I hope you realise your meaning to others around the world- well this one anyway/ thank you for all you do and are doing and thank you for just being you!
<3
Jessica, I have followed your work since I found you during COVID. Thank you for your integrity. Elizabeth
What an uncharacteristic post from you! In something like four years of following you I don't remember a hint about the other side of your life - relationships.
As a born Californian and after three decades in the Washington swamp I am familiar with cheating and cheaters. My take is the same as yours. Even in two failed marriages the question until the end was how to make it work rather than, who else?
Happy to say that the third one is a charm. And to know from experience that bodies are just bodies - everybody has one. What is unique is the person, and especially the relationship. The bond that serves as the foundation of the relationship, the anchor, the model to present to the children.
Live long and prosper, Jessica!
Man and woman! Do not let lust and sloth rule your day! Baptize in the name of Yehoshuah [Jesus], and cleanse your sin! Then you are forgiven, and you will not cheat and defile yourselves anymore. Higher awareness will rule your day! Live a holy life with good intention in every moment you can! If there is real love, there will be marriage, and hopefully healthy non-modified antivaxx natural children.
Why do people cheat? 1. Because they can and think they will get away with it. 2. Because there are financial incentives to cheat. 3. Because they are told to by their workplaces for the benefit of the employer.
But, you are mostly looking at interpersonal relationships in this article. I think our cultures have emphasiszed the wrong things because the sell. 1. Sexualizing everything to make us feel if we bought X we would be more like the model in the ad. 2. Placing power and success of climbing the corporate ladder with get you a high value partner. 3. Lack of impulse control. I want him or her and my partner will not find out. But eventually they do and it creates great pain. The moral failing is allowing yourself to be willing to take the risk of hurting someone you love or at least care about for some shallow self gratification, validation or thrill.
Me sitting around with a gay couple; “you two are monogamous, right?” “Absolutely” they said and then reached out and touched each other affectionately. “We talked about this, because a lot of gay couples aren’t, and we knew this was very important to both of us. So we are. I mean mainly.” Mainly! I laughed. Then they proceeded to tell me about one who had been at an academic conference and had a hookup, sending PICS BACK to the other. The hookup was coming out to visit them that summer. Which was going to be hot and exciting!! They asked how my wife and I handled it. I said ‘we don’t. We are monogamous. And not mainly’. They gasped. As in how is this possible!?!
wow...
wow is right. i know that 'to each their won' might apply here for some people, but i really feel like true pair bonding can't work that way. i think it's about lust when sex is involved. in my opinion, which is not shared by many, the divinity and sacredness of pair bonding physically is lost on some people, and is centered around love, not lust. it's simply 'too easy' to be easy. :)
A gay person I knew asked how long my wife and I had been together. At the time it was 20 years. Forty now. He was shocked. He said ‘Twenty years. That’s 100 in gay years.’ Which was pretty funny. But he said a 20 year long relationship among gays is the equivalent of 100 year long straight marriage. They were that unusual. They don’t hold together. Not that straight ones do either in many ways. But they break up really easily.
Very insightful. I've been writing about liars a long time and this applies, as a cheat is a lie. They both undermine the agency of the counter party, and are both the mark of a selfish, sometimes evil soul.
Those who cheat allow importance to the " container" than to the "content".
I call them " empty boxes ".
nice
Yah… any kind of cheating is a sort of self judgement where we feel like we need to be ahead of or above others. It’s all about self esteem to me. When we judge others we’re judging ourselves. And there’s so much name calling and blaming and yes, cheating… all to cover up the roaring self hatred. I agree it’s a lot about nurture. A little trick I use when I catch myself being judgmental is to pause and say ”just like me”. Good topic. 🩵
To your question: The first person I fell truly in love with - and still love decades later - admitted to being witness to, but incapable of responding to their father sexually abusing the middle sister in a family of two girls and three boys. In that moment of hearing this on our third date, I sensed that I was going to be cheated on. And despite denials about intention, he cheated on me within 18 months. Ii felt at the time that it was going to happen as a self-test of survival through broken loyalties (survival) by an authority figure. Other than keeping secrets, social norms were obviously useless. Someone cheating on me seemed like the means for the witness of abuse to regain a sense of self-sovereignty through self-created existential crisis, after being silenced in the emotionally and physically precarious realm of child abuse.
Their MD father was socially respected in a top position, and an authority figure at home for kids who depended upon him for their very survival. The father was a narcissst but did not make sexual comments in public about feeling his daughter was sexy to him, like a certain Public political figure did on daytime TV..
None of the kids in the family if my friend ever got married. The older brother turned out to be the most caring for
others. They are all really bright, creative and perhaps silently conditioned… to be who they are by trusting in themselves and still upholding their values.
Cheating is such an unfortunate act and maybe more forgivable than child abuse. And for those cheated on? Love hurts: but also, their cheating has not much to do with the person cheated on. It’s a sign of no love or broken love, if we share love physically with spoken commitment.
When cheated on, I fully felt my own being as decidedly different than the one I loved who cheated on me. Honesty as a loving person was always the basis for grounding my very sense of being. But that comes from and with suffering under and always caring for a deceptive, unloving Covert Narcissist of a mother. It takes a lifetime to learn we can’t compensate for family members. Regardless of others cheating, life is little without knowing ♥️ and respect for others comes from within. Cheating and abuse for that matter may be a boundary issue. Abhorrent? Painful! I don’t know the Alpha lingo, but don’t think it has much to do with conscious loving.
can you define conscious loving? this is interesting.
Hmm yes. But I need more context. Can you kindly say something more about the Alpha metaphor/idea or give a reference?
I also need to sleep on ‘conscious loving’ to be more definitive. Because
It is potential within all of us, and feels related to a profound sense of being (alive), in a way some don’t seem to sense.
It is something about inter-subjectivity… Being present and WITH spirted beings (people, cats, cells LIFE ) versus thinking about others, as if objective things who DO things to us. It’s something about precious creativity with and within this one/whole physical realm with others of the same realm… where creativity including pro-creation is profound and comes from within each of us through the complex dynamics across scales.
The conscious loving reflects an empathetic sense that can be frightening (?) when others simply don’t know how that is. It’s something about open perception and perspective, connections, and intelligence beyond thought(?) not one or the other…. and being in the world with one another in a timeless now.
Sorry as I am rambling about the ineffable that is not just a physically intimate act.
Is the cheating ‘problem’ maybe what you/we sense when someone you love isn’t fully with you as you know you are with them? So when they fail to respect you with honesty, they impose their limitations on you? Or maybe they aren’t cheating on you so much as their life has cheated them out of the experience of knowing and loving you and themselves as fully as you feel you do them? Nobody is above or ahead of anybody else really. Still, many just think they are in a well defined objective and transactional world when they maybe could have potential for being so much more.
Words! Clumsy yet Heartfelt shades of the 12 bio-dynamic dimensions of love within the context of universal being which IS: love.
Letters! I am, and it is the difference between one loving and living within all that is ever now.
As always, and until such time,
Thank you for your writing Jessica .
🙏🏻💝
Then there are the other, not so humane reasons and characteristics that are not reparable. Pathology.
Nature, nurture and the problem of evil.
There have been very few 'healthy' relationships exemplified on television, but a favorite of mine from the 'old days' of tv was the connection between Marshall Matt Dillon and Miss Kitty on the wonderful series "Gunsmoke". It portrayed two independent, self-assured people who loved each other and respected each other's character, personality, privacy, needs and wants. An exquisitely balanced relationship, especially for the early 1960s.
As an aside, there was an episode of the precursor to "Gunsmoke" called "Marshall Dillon" that absolutely floored me. Bear in mind this was about 1959 or '60. I saw it a couple of years ago on some obscure digital tv channel. It revolved around a middle-aged husband and wife who lived on a farm/ranch a few miles out of town and stayed pretty much to themselves, except for the infrequent trips to town in the horse and buggy for supplies. Everyone in town KNEW how the husband unrelentingly verbally and physically abused his wife for years, but they all looked the other way. Finally, the wife couldn't take it any more and shot her husband dead in their barn after a particularly bad session of abuse. Marshall Dillon went out to the farm to investigate the death, exchanged minimal words with the wife, easily grasped what had transpired, offered his well wishes to the now-widow, got on his horse and went back to town. Never dreamed I'd see that circa 1960 on the tv.
correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it implied ('wink, wink'), in the show 'Gunsmoke' that Miss Kitty was the local 'madam'?
Absolutely, and she also owned the saloon. The madam, though, and not one of the 'working' girls. As I said, an independent woman, pretty unusual in the 50s-60s.
Cheaters are totally lacking in self respect or, for that matter respect for anyone else. I sometimes wonder if it not part of the subtle brainwashing that is going on in efforts to break up the family unit. After all family is one of our biggest strengths and must be destroyed if they wish to totally dominate mankind.
“To thine own self be true” kinda sums it up don’t you think?… harder said than done but well worth the effort.
Thank you for being you!!
Jessica, this topic is about as old as civilization itself.
I agree with you on most of your content and since I'm no longer approaching middle-age, I'm old enough to remember when it was OK to have a one night stand without serious consequences or being being stalked both physically & online..... I personally learned my lesson about cheating in 2002.....
my then-girlfriend, was a beautiful, though inexperienced person.... we were experimenting with threesomes and our real estate agent who sold us our condo, indicated she was very interested in both of us....yes we were all aware of the sexual tension in the room...well, the agent was used to being in charge, and wanted a permanent threesome, and she continued to pursue me at my office....I had to change my address, etc. It went on for months, until she sold another house to a charming female buyer, who replaced us as the newest unwitting target of unrelenting sexual advances. A court-ordered restraining order brought it all to a peaceful end
ENM, ethical non-monogamy, is also a very sensitive topic which can consume hours and hours of interesting reading of accounts by married couples who are trying to use it to solve issues of loneliness and neglect in conventional monogamous relationships, perhaps, after decades of monogamous marriage.
Polyamory with children , without children, empty, nesters, and gay couples of all types will likely have something to say about cheating on their significant other, legal spouse, Or even an ex lover, invited to thanksgiving...
Pretty complicated stuff, eh ? Nevermind the Girls and guys who believe that it isn't cheating unless there's an emotional connection and climaxing.... these comments are not intended to be gasoline on a fire, merely Broadening the scope of the discussion